Admirable Deviations
- A Chat with Deviant Art
Article by FOF
Editors note: The subjects of this interview are a young, jovial group. Rather than cheat you out of the experience by "cleaning up" this chat/interview, we present it to you, pretty much as it happened. We hope you enjoy this unguarded, spontaneous look at the Deviant crew. No names were changed to protect the innocent - ed.
Elsewhere in this issue we talk about the founding of skinz.org, now, at three years old one of the most mature skin sites on the net. In this article, we talk to the guys behind one of the newest skin sites, deviantart.com. The site has stood out since it's inception for a number of reasons: sections for non-wallpaper digital art; the ability to have a different header each time you load the page; highly customisable profiles. More recently sections have been added for stock art (public domain photos), tutorials and poetry. The site is vast, and after less than three months, new staff were needed. I talked to founders Jark, Matteo and new boy Jier about the site, their visions, and that legal agreement...
Tek: Hello, thanks for coming folks, can you just start by outlining your formal roles within Deviant Art?
Matteo: We don't have "formal" roles I don't guess - kinda general stuff
Jark: Jier is the "software guy" that's about the only real role here
Tek: Jark how did Deviant Art come about?
Matteo: Magic
Jark: Well...I used to run a site, over a year ago, called screenphuck.net. it was up for a couple months and was doing very well, but then me and the guy who worked on it were approached to work on another project and dump screenphuck. we did, screenphuck died...
Matteo: btw, I supported screenphuck a lot
Jark: Then about a year later, Deskmod was doing well, Custo gone and Skinz the same. I always wanted to run a skin site, so I asked the other guy if he wanted to start up screenphuck again. we did but then 2 weeks into it he stopped coding and lost interest. I decided that I was gonna open up my own site then. thought for a couple weeks on a name and idea and came up with Deviant Art...and here we are. That's it in a nutshell
Tek: So you regard Skinz as "gone"?
Jark: Skinz as in the site is just the same as it always has been - boring
Matteo: True true. Good site tho. Much props to Shoggot and the rest
Tek: Can I press you on that? why boring?
Matteo: We're here to build community! not destroy it
Jark: There really isn't much to it. you go there to look at skins or to talk on the message board. That's it...I wanted something _more_ interactive. Don't get me wrong, I visit Skinz on a daily basis it's just that it doesn't do much for me in terms of interaction.
Tek: You mentioned thinking about the name; the name itself is something I am fond of. I like the way your members are called "Deviants", their submissions, "Deviations", and so on. From past experience with song and band names, I know how long it can take to come up with an idea like that... Is there an interesting story behind it?
Jark: Uhm. No real story behind it. I actually wanted deviate.com but of course it was taken. I wanted a name that represented customisation but wasn't being used. Deviate = not normal, therefore when you use a skin you are deviating. Deviant Art sounded good because it allows that usage while giving a sense of community with the words "deviations" and "deviants." that's it really
Matteo: Umm.. I like the name, but it gets misspelled a lot
Jier:I like the name screenphuck better myself... bet members wouldn't like to be called phuckiants :P
Matteo: Hehe
Jark: ROFL
Matteo: We need to buy deviate.com and devart.com
Jark: That and people see: devian tart not deviant art
Matteo: Yeah
Jark: devart.com is taken =(
Matteo: I know
Tek: Matteo, did you know Jark outside of skinning/art? How did he approach you?
Matteo: I've known Jark a long time. Since screenphuck and before I think.. Jark, u remember when we met?
Jark: It was quite some time ago; don't remember exactly
Matteo: Me either. Anyways, he showed me Deviant Art in early beta and I asked if he needed help and here we are
Tek: Jier, have you met the other two in the flesh? or is it an online thing?
Jier:Online... but I've known them before I joined the team. Jark I met when he was doing screenphuck, and Matteo... for quite awhile
Matteo: I've known Jier since early Deskmod days
Tek: You've mentioned Skinz and DM already... and touched on how you differ... what makes Deviant Art really different?
Matteo: Deviant Art owns them all. :) I've done all I can to make Deviant Art better, like adding fonts, stock art, tutorials, etc
Jier:Personally... I like Deviant Art the best because of the comments... every time you upload, you're going to get at least 2 comments... other sites don't offer that. Skinz, if you're lucky. Deskmod, maybe...but they aren't good comments that help improve the art like Deviant Art's
Matteo: I'd like to say that I've been a huge advocate for Deskmod since they're birth.. I give much props to Gorman, Chimi, and the rest.. they're great guys but Deviant Art picks up where they leave off
Jier:I was an admin for Deskmod for a short time, as well as a news poster for Custo... and so far, I like the scene at Deviant Art the most.
Jark: Lets see here. The idea behind Deviant Art does not stop at mere desktop customisation but art in general skins are art, fonts are art, etc... we are striving to be the "one stop shop for all things art" on the net...something that does not quite exist today
Tek: That's quite a tall order don't you think?
Jark: Which?
Tek: Being the one stop shop for all things art on the net.
Jark: Yes, it will be a tall order however we like challenges and think that we're up to the task
Jier:I need to comment more :[
Matteo: Me too, I've been slacking off - too much happening with wasted youth these days.
Tek: Yes, the amount of comments is probably Deviant Art's strongest point IMHO.
Tek: So, we have Deviant Art, Skinz and DM... 3 different sites, each with their own personality, but do you ever see there being a situation where there might be too many skin sites?
Matteo: Too many? hmm..
Jier:I don't think there is such thing as to many skin sites, Every site offers something unique to its visitors, And to choose what you want in a site is a nice option.
Jark: There might be too many skin sites, but that is why we are not sticking to mere skins
Tek: Good point
Jark: We like to think of Deviant Art as an _art_ site
Matteo: I think if there were 1000 the community would suffer
Tek: OK, too many art sites then?
Jark: I doubt that there would ever be too many art sites =)
Matteo: If there were 1000 deviant art's, it would suck cuz then we wouldn't be unique. But if each site had something different, I'd like that
Tek: Hmmm there's so many music sites. and no-one ever says there are too many of them right?
Jier:There should only be 1 music site .. ::cough:: dmusic.com ::cough:: :P
[Deviant Art is part of the D Music Network]
Matteo: Hehe
Tek: Jier and Matteo, you both have fairly large sites of your own (Matteo - wasted youth; Jier - 545 Studios;) how on earth do you find the time to maintain Deviant Art as well? Don't you do anything to pay the bills?
Matteo: I am a psycho crazy college student. I have no time. I go to class, work on sites, study, eat, no sleep
Jier:I've taken the year off of high school to learn about php and develop more programs.. so I have quite a bit of time to maintain 545 Studios and give a helping hand at Deviant Art as well.
Jark: As a matter of fact I have a full-time day job. =)
Tek: Good grief
Matteo: Yeah Jark works a lot
Tek: What do you do for a living then Jark?
Matteo: Prostitute - don't lie to the man Jark
Jark: Tek: I am a network engineer, system admin, website admin
Matteo: He's lying, he sells his body
Jier:haha
Matteo: Japanese women love the Americans, right Jark?
Jark: I walk the street =D
Matteo: Jark has a kid and wife too BTW
Tek: Wow, that's some schedule!
Tek: Are you pleased with how Deviant Art is growing at the moment? What do you make of the speed of growth at Deviant Art? How do you intend to keep growing?
Matteo: Yes I'm happy with the growth
Jark: I am definitely pleased with the growth of Deviant Art...I never would of thought that it would be as big as it is. it's definitely growing much faster than I imagined...but I guess that if you have a site people like then it will grow quickly
Matteo: It's bigger than wasted youth and half as old
Tek: Does that bother you Matteo?
Matteo: Me? hell no!
Jark: Tell the truth Matteo!!!
Matteo: Ok it kills me
Jier:Since I've started to help, I've seen quite a few new artists share their work with Deviant Art... so its obvious it is growing.
Tek: Jier how does it compare to traffic at 545?
Matteo: Even 545 gets more than wasted youth - and that site sucks! :P
Jier:I don't really know...we average 20k hits a day at 545... I'm not sure what Deviant Art gets.
Tek: That's pretty impressive
Jier:I assume Deviant Art gets more.
Matteo: Hell yes
Jark: Yes, much more. we get almost as much hits as Deskmod. we're only like 94, 95 days old though
Jier:545 isn't a very interactive site(yet) so... we cant compare to Deviant Art :[
Matteo: Same with wasted youth
Jier:But... 545 owns WY in hits :P
Matteo: shut ur mouth Jier
Jier:lol. I was waiting for that
Jier:;]
Matteo: :)
Matteo: I'm not bitter. I know I could still kick ur ass. hehe
* Jier pulls Matteo's hair
Tek: You've not been without your own problems at Deviant Art... There was a lot of response in the skinning circle to the recent upload agreement posted on your site.... Could you clarify your reasons for posting the upload agreement in the first place?
* Jier points at Jark
* Matteo kicks Jark in the groin
Matteo: answer it - we don't need a lawsuit
Jark: we're a big site, need to have an agreement that protects us as well as the artists. There was just some mere oversight in some of the wording that the artists took to mean one thing when in fact we meant another.
Tek: How do you feel about the rapid and passionate response from Deviant Art visitors?
Jark: It's great...it shows that the deviants are concerned! =)
Matteo: Yeah ditto to Jark
Jier:...yeah..what they said
Tek: Were you aware of the fact that the original agreement allowed an artists work to be altered by a third-party, who would then take ownership of that work, without giving the original artist credit?
Jark: In actuality, the folks that read it read it completely incorrectly
Tek: Can you elaborate on that? :)
Jark: People read _into_ it as it did not allow for that, according to a couple of our lawyers. well...the derivative works phrase that was in there had nothing to do with the art submitted by individuals, but rather for material items like posters, etc... it would not allow one to take someone's skin, use it in their interface and then copyright the interface it would not allow one to take someone's skin, use it in their interface and then copyright the interface
and then come back and do the lawsuit thing...it was not meant for that, nor worded for that. However...because the lawyer mixed in some of our future thoughts with a mere submission agreement, the wording was slightly sub par for the artists ...which I totally understand
Jier:Damn legal crap... :: yawns ::
Tek: Is Deviant Art represented by a firm, or an individual attorney? Are you still with that firm/attorney?
Jark: Deviant Art is part of the DMusic Network, and we have our own lawyer
* Jier Wakes up Matteo
Matteo: what? huh? I have my own lawyer? me?
Jier::P I have my own lawyer :] he owns me..
Tek: What kind of learning experience has this been for you?
Jark: Just to be more careful with sensitive issues like this.
Matteo: I learned:
1) A lot of work goes into this site
2) You gotta be careful what u say
3) Making everyone happy is hard to do
4) It's fun as hell
5) I learned a lot more about php/mysql
Jark: I presume he meant the legal stuff =)
Tek: I did really, but what Matteo said is v cool
Jier:6) Making the best site for skins...hard to do as well :]
Matteo: Yes yes
Matteo: 7) Keeping Jark happy is also hard
Jark: haha
Jier:Naw..he justs wants cookies
* Jier throws Jark a oreo
Tek: What have you learnt from the legal thing specifically then?
Matteo: That lawyers and artists will never get along
Jark: Lawyers, while a necessary evil, are more trouble than anything
Tek: What is in line for Deviant Art in the future?
Matteo: Poetry!
Jark: More art, faster site and a whole host of other stuff
Matteo: I don't want to give away some shit
Jark: The site is too damn slow now =(
Matteo: True dat
Tek: C'mon... other stuff? can you be specific?
Jier:If I get my way...I will be making skinnable software for Deviant Art.. something along the lines of skins browser... and I have a few other ideas I would like to make happen
Matteo: Wasted youth will soon be launching their user section.. there's a secret..
Jier:Matteo is really a women...that's another secret..
Matteo: Jier likes men
Jark: lets see here
Matteo: there's one
Jier::[
Matteo: Jier came onto me last night while I was drunk
Jier:Matteo: you fool.. that was Jark! I told you not to drink :P you get the j's mixed up
Jark: The site is slowly being transformed into a "platform" rather than a website. so...there will be some very exciting things coming down the pipe from that
Tek: What's the difference for us? and you?
Jark: For us; ease of coding and adding new features. For you; more exciting and interactive experience through a number of new customization features
Tek: More in the personal sections? That kind of thing?
Jark: More personalization for certain, hosting is a possibility - we are going to offer color customization, something that screenphuck had
Jark: Skinnable site is what Custo offered. Gorman was inspired by screenphuck in many ways, and that is why you see some of the things there that you do. Me and Gorman talk almost daily, so I've helped him a bit
Jier:I think Deskmod and Deviant Art kinda feed off each other.. and kind out do each other in some ways.
Matteo: Me lubs Gorman
Tek: It's good to see that kind of communication between sites; that is how these places become real inter-site communities
Matteo: If only the 3 sites could get along
Jark: Well, up until recently me and Skinz were on very bad terms, but Gorman and me have been buddies since the MP3-2000 thing.
Matteo: I helped stevo with that
Tek: I'm sorry to hear that Jark... can you let us know any of the history?
Jark: t started when screenphuck first opened, Mian and Toasty thought that we ripped some things from their design when in fact the design was spawned from the cybertropix design (I run many other sites)
Jark: Shoggot, Mian and Toasty were all pissy and whatnot. recently, though, since Deviant Art, Shoggot has been cool. I've never spoken to the other 2 since.
Tek: Jark... aaah yes I seem to remember a bit about that now... Jier, can I just go back to something you said... can you think of an area where DM outdoes Deviant Art?
Jier:Well...I was thinking it was the other way around.
Tek: I thought you meant that it kinda went both ways...
Jier:But... DeskMod's threaded news comments VS Deviant Art's non threaded...and Deviant Art's Devpacks vs. Dm's skin baskets... so it does go both ways
Jark: Jier: we're gonna have that soon, a la DMusic style =) (threaded commenting)
Jier::]
Jark: This load balancing mysql stuff seems to have sped up the site
Tek: That's good to hear Jark. speed is my only concern with Deviant Art
Jier:DM does out do Deviant Art in lack of speed though :P
Tek: Jier.. only just
Tek: I have five questions we ask everyone can you ALL answer these please?
Tek: 1. what skin do you wish you'd written?
Jark: 1. any skin...I am NOT an artists by any stretch of the imagination
Jier:The skin I wish I created...
Matteo: I wish I had created any of X-Caponius's skins, he rules, or Dangeruss
Tek: Jier?
Jier:Utomjording, WMP7 skin by lowen. While I have no idea what the name means, it's probably the best skin I've ever seen; sadly... I don't use WMP7 :[
Tek: 2. What would you like to have on your laptop if you were stranded on an island, e.g.: skins, music, proggies, peripherals, games, etc.
Matteo: A laptop with counter-strike, Deviant Art, and wasted youth, and a fast as hell connection
Tek: Jier, Jark?
Jark: Hellified pipe to the net, all of the skins from the dream suite by Dangeruss (I have a thing with orange) and my mp3 collection
Jier:2. VAIO SR, with dialup, Photoshop, IE, and...VB
Tek: 3. have there been any skins that have made you laugh? cry? orgasm?
Jier:hmm
Matteo: Orgasm? I don't like skins THAT much
Jier:Cry... yes cause I've seen some nasty looking skins :P
Jark: There's been plenty of icq+ skins that made me wanna puke
Jier:but I don't wanna say which :P
Jark: I'd say that about 95% of them completely suck
Jier:lol
Jark: Too many people use ICQ and try to skin ICQ+ with anything that is less than considered art
Jark: Probably my all time favorite skin for Winamp, though, is crystal bastard by misery. I damn near creamed when I first saw it. Plus, a skin that allows you to see "bastard" on it all the time freaking 0wns
Matteo: nah.. any skin by sphere makes me cream
Tek: 4. Boxers or Briefs
Jark: 4. boxers definitely...only llamas wear briefs!
Jier:.. boxers
Matteo: Briefs!. I wear both actually
Tek: At the same time?
Matteo: Yes :)
Jier:Matteo wears panties :P
* Jier hides from Matteo
* Matteo kicks Jier in the face
Matteo: I'm violent when confronted with my problems hehe.
Tek: OK and q 5. list some sites you visit daily, some you visit weekly,some that you visit hourly.
Jark: Minutely: Deviant Art. hourly: /., Skinz; daily; wired news, cnet news, betanews, file flash
Matteo: Deviant Art, wasted youth, Deskmod, Skinz, betanews, cnet, collegeclub, page3 :)
Jier:5. hourly: Deviant Art.com, wastedyouth.org, 545studios.com( arent those obvious? :P ) daily: altavista.com, Skinz.org. weekly: xaviersite.com / betanews.com / newgrounds.com
Matteo: Hehe
Tek: What's collegeclub?
Matteo: Cool site for college students. Oh yeah, forgot 545 - I visit that hourly
Jier::[
Tek: So did Jark
Jark: I didn't forget it =)
Jier: ^%$^#$#$ - I hate you all
Jark: I love you Jier!
Jier:lol :]
Jier:Matteo: betanews owns
Matteo: Only good thing I have seen from efront
Jier:;]
Matteo: I have a skin. It's not done tho. www.wastedyouth.org/matt/wy4.jpg. That's my first skin
Jark: Matteo omg
* Jark creams on Matteo
Matteo: haha
Jark: I lost control of bodily functions there sorry.
Matteo: Thanks Jark. That's version 4
Jark: that skin is ^%$^#$#$ awesome
Matteo: A joint between Shea, me, and X-Caponius
Jier:I think it SUCKS
Jier:just kidding :P
Matteo: Jier, shut up.
Jier:sexy
* Matteo smacks Jier for his insolence
Jier:you mean innocents?
Matteo: hehe ur far from innocent
Jark: hah
Jier:true
Tek: OK guys... is there anything else you'd like readers of Teknidermy to know? any plugs or comments?
Matteo: enter my contest at wasted youth
Matteo: !!!
Jier:hmm..
Jark: yeah
Jier:545Studios.com "The greatest software developer for skinnable applications" - Deviant Art!
Jark: Deviant Art, from now until forever, will be holding monthly contests; so stop by, check the rules, and enter to win cool prizes!
Matteo: oh wasted youth = wastedyouth.org
Jier:And..post on the damn forums
Matteo: Yeah
Jier:Not enuf people use the forums at Deviant Art
Tek: Yeah why is there so little activity there when the rest of the site buzzes?
Jier:It makes me sad
Matteo: People can't spell obviously, that's why
Jark: Not sure
Jier:lol
Jark: I think the shoutbox has plenty of activity
Matteo: Yeah, it's easier to use
Jark: But the forums...they're slowly picking up
Matteo: I'm out guys, party time
Tek: Bye Matteo, thanks very much
Jark: Matteo: scram. Beat it. Get lost
Matteo: Thanks for the interview
Tek: No, thank-you all for your time. Much appreciated.
Jier:Thanks... that was fun ;]
Jark: Thank you.