We SkinWerk It Out
An Interview with Skinwerkz/ByteAudio's top dog, Jeff Schrader..
Interview by Migellito

Editors Note: The artists at SkinWerkz created those awesome interfaces for WMP7. We will publish a "round table" discussion with this talented group of people in a future edition of Teknidermy.

Tek: I've been looking around the Byte Audio website, and there seem to be some very extensive plans for it. Could you share a little bit about the different areas Byte Audio is interested in?

Jeff: Yeah we have a lot of services for musicians who are just starting out as well as for record labels and recording studios.

Tek: What services do you offer for recording artists?

Jeff: From simple to start one page websites for them to upload their music for distribution to band merchandise. We basically cover the entire spectrum for musician services. Even the legal portion of the music industry.

Tek: That brings up a question I had while looking at the site. Will the mp3s offered be encoded?

Jeff: That would be entirely up to the individual artists. They can either freely distribute or sell their music and in any format they choose. If you mean encoded as far as security.

Tek: So it really is very personalized. That's excellent. Do you have a lot of bands signed on?

Jeff: We just started our BandWerkz promotions. I'll explain...Say you are a band and have no idea how to get your music onto the net or are not computer savvy. BandWerkz will be in stores that service musicians.

What you would do is buy the BandWerkz card, which contains a pin number. When you get home you go to www.bandwerkz.com and input the pin number on our website. Then through easy to use instructions you are prompted to upload your music, lyrics, text content or pictures. We have templated sites for them to choose from.

That's one service we offer.

Tek: Is there an option for custom sites as well?

Jeff: Yes. We have different packages. BandWerkz Gold and Platinum I believe are the packages that allow for more individuality. StarWerkz is another way to get a completely customized site.

Tek: And your own designers are doing the web design?

Jeff: Yes. Our in-house web designers do the web designing, though I imagine we get extremely busy we would outsource. There are plenty of talented web designers in the skin community I could turn to.

Tek: it seems it might get very work intensive. I imagine a lot of smaller bands would find it a great way to just begin to get more publicity.

Can you explain the difference between BandWerkz and StarWerkz?

Jeff: BandWerkz is dedicated more toward the unknown bands. Once they get a site on BandWerkz they are fed into our portal for exposure. StarWerkz is more geared to the band that can sell 50,000 units and can afford to get more elaborate on their website.

It looks like we will be entering into an agreement to work with a company that does true 3D, where you wear glasses.

Tek: Fascinating! For 3d music video?

Jeff: I'm putting together some ideas that will involve true 3D websites. So instead of having the choice of HTML or Flash you will also be able to have your site done in real 3D. Imagine this...

You could film a live show or video in true 3D and stream it. Kiss did it with the people we will be working for. I saw the demo and it blew me away. I've already proposed this to Warner Bros Records and they thought it was a great idea. So we'll see what happens.

Tek: Impressive! Is it QuickTime based?

Jeff: I don't think the streaming format really matters. It's the cameras they use. I saw it on video and it was spectacular, so imagine at a computer's resolution. This is on par with the best technology out there. We have also discussed doing 3D enhanced CDs as well.

Tek: I see.. just like the 3d films of the 50''s, but with the technology of 2000.

Jeff: The difference is these aren't the red/blue glasses :)

Tek: aha.. What are the glasses like?

Jeff: They look like amber sunglasses, but the results are truly amazing.

I saw the demo in a room full of our staff and all you could here was “WOW”...hehe

Tek: Your company has already teamed with major labels to put content on music cds. Would this be similar?

Jeff: Yes. I'm in talks now with Warner Records and I mentioned the concept to a movie studio that seemed really interested...Imagine showing your movie's trailer on the web in 3D. It makes for quite the hype. I'd really like to see what we could do with skins and this technology.

Tek: That would be very impressive. Are there plans then for inclusion on movie dvds as well?

Jeff: Well the company that has this technology is considering doing a full network on either television or cable of nothing but 3D content so, yes, DVD is only a matter of time.

Tek: Give me some ideas of how you think this might merge with gui skinning.

Jeff: Traditional skinning, I don't think, would be compatible...only because of the resources needed, but skinning as far as interfaces on a website or CD/DVD - the possibilities are endless.

Tek: As long as one had the glasses on anyway, it would be great to experiment with the whole interface of the movie or video. That’s very exciting!

Jeff: Done properly this will be the future. Music videos on the net in 3D would be unbelievable. For the Kiss concert they told me you could be 1000 feet away and there was zero loss of quality.

Tek: 1000 feet is a long way for optics like that. Do you have any insight on what's behind the technology?

Jeff: No, now you’re talking about NDA material :)

Tek: sorry.. NDA?

Jeff: Non-disclosure agreement. I'm not privy to the technology behind it.

Tek: So, how many band sites does BA have running right now? Can you share a few urls?

Jeff: We haven't really hit that phase yet. Right now we are securing the locations for the BandWerkz cards. Then we will begin to promote the product. We just signed with 2 large companies to display the BandWerkz cards at their locations so it looks like we're going to do great. By the way, the BandWerkz logo was create by precurser (who inspires me to no end.)

Tek: Yes, precurser is a remarkable talent. It was a shame to hear about the recent ripping episode.

Tek: You have worked with some people, providing material for cds. For example, the Doobie Brothers.. There were actual skins on their latest cd, right?

Jeff: Yes. We have done quite a few skins for large companies. To name a few, we did 30 windows media player 7 skins for Microsoft for the launch of the new WMP7. We have done some skins for V2 Records for their groups Underworld and Mandalay. Right now our next contract is for Warner Bros recording artists Linkin Park. We are also in talks with a large software company to do skins on a fairly consistent basis. Windows media player 7 is by far the most powerful at the moment of all the formats when it come to versatility and for allowing a wide range of content but we skin them all.

Tek: Are the bands including other app skins, or only media player skins?

Jeff: For Linkin Park we are doing a WMP7 skin, Winamp and Sonique. 3 skins to cover a broader user base .

Tek: It occurs to me that some bands might want to allow a listener to give their whole desktop the band’s signature look.. without using photoskins :)

Jeff: Are you referring to a skin suite?

Tek: Yes, something on the order of the suites done by dangeruss...

Jeff: Yes, actually I've spoken to Warner Records about that and we will probably do some in the future to support their artists.

Tek: I can see a big future for skin designers if major bands start contracting skin suites. I can think of a few good ones right now.

Jeff: Well most of the skinners are cross-platform artists, meaning they can skin whatever you put in front of them.

Tek: How many skinners do you have working there now?

Jeff: For the Microsoft contract we had 18 skinners. The quality of skins we've put out and the skin author’s names that are attached to them basically says it all I think.

Tek: A lot of the skins for wmp7 were very impressive. They begin to remind me of audion skins, which have a very powerful native format. Was there any attempt to model after that feel?

Jeff: I'm not familiar with audion.

Tek: It's a Mac program. It was the first application to use alpha blending, and has attracted some very accomplished designers.

Jeff: ahhhh, I'm a Windows man.

Tek: Will there be more skins done for Microsoft?

Jeff: For the company itself, possibly. Using their format, definitely

Tek: Their format isn't proprietary?

Jeff: No, anyone can skin their player, just like Winamp, Sonique and the others.

Tek: I see. I had thought perhaps the SkinWerkz team had gotten access to source code unavailable to others.

Jeff: We worked really close with their WMP7 coding staff during the contract. We actually had a 3-hour chat between their main WMP7 coder and our SkinWerkz crew during the contract.

Tek: I see.. What was the relationship like with the ms team? Did they have creative control?

Jeff: They really gave the skinners free reign. There was some standardizing of buttons and tool tips, but for the most part it was whatever the artist created. They have a really nice team over at windows media. Great to work with, as I think the skinners will agree.

Tek: Let's talk about your own experience with skin design - do you design skins?

Jeff: I helped conceptually. The first one I really worked on conceptually was a skin done by vendicator called The Mechanism, which was a Sonique skin for Byte Audio. I act more like a troubleshooter. If its contract work, I take a big part in it. If I’m not happy with the results I try to make suggestions...ask Lowen about the Creed skin lol...It went through 2 redesigns until he came up with the third, which blew me away.

Tek: I've seen some of your wallpaper art, and you've got some good ideas.

Jeff: Thanks. I come from a real world art background. Not digital, so the digital art is a new animal to me, but from the moment I saw misery's k-jofol skin Phong, I was hooked.

Tek: What is your art background?

Jeff: Started with music. Sang for bands for just over 7 years in Miami, Fort Lauderdale and in Los Angeles.

Then got into wood sculpting and joined the local art guild for 2 years and entered shows. I’ve also written two teleplays, which are TV scripts. Though they weren't sold.

Tek: In Los Angeles? That’s big arena :)

Jeff: It was great. Played for David Bowie's ex-wife Angela Bowie for her birthday party with my old band.

The band days were fun, just not profitable :). It was great for the girlfriend department though lol.

Tek: That's quite a gig for a small band :)

Jeff: Someone connected with her saw a gig we had played and asked if we were interested. How could we say no :)

Tek: lol. What TV shows did you write the teleplays for?

Jeff: I did an X-Files script and a Star Trek Voyager.

Tek: You seem like a very sensitive individual.. How do deal with some of the opinions about your criticisms of skins done for your company?

Jeff: Well look at this way...I work with the best in the community, most of them anyway. That speaks for itself.

The main compliant is that I'm somehow cheapening the art form...but define “success“. To me, its getting paid for doing what you love to do. I wish I got paid for singing what I pay the skinners.

Tek: It is a great thing to get paid for doing something you love. It’s many people's dream.

Jeff: Yes, so when I hear the gripes I think it’s ridiculous.

This isn't damaging the community, it’s really not even a part of it. Its like saying to a skinner you can’t work at McDonalds. What the hell does that have to do with the community? The benefit the community gets is great skins, so I don't understand the flack. I really don't hear any gripes that much anymore.

Tek: Do you think a lot of it resulted from asking artists to change parts of their work?

Jeff: No. That’s part of doing contract work. You have to make the client happy. But for the most part the only one who changes anything is me. The client doesn't even see it if I don't think it will rock their world, and let me say, the guys I work with ROCK MY WORLD!!

Tek: Did you mean above that you would edit the skins yourself?

Jeff: I consider myself more of a director like a movie director. You let the actor do what they do best, but sometimes you have to say, “well this might work better.” But if they feel strongly about something, then I try not to interfere.

Tek: I see.. so really, it was just suggestions to the artist, then they would edit their work (or not).

Jeff: There are certain things that I wouldn't accept. For instance if the buttons were too hard to figure out, then I would make an objection. I'll give you lowen and vendicator as an example. They send me the graphics throughout the whole process, so we really work together on them.

It makes a difference having another opinion, I think. I come from a sci fi background so I have lots of ideas :)

Tek: Science fiction is shaping more and more of the future appearing around us :)

Jeff: Of course. It is our future, ideas and creativity shape our future.

Tek: What importance do you see in the form a user interface takes, as far as it's impact on how we use technology?

Jeff: The interface is another extension of our creativity. Just a different canvas.

Tek: We touched on one of your roles with SkinWerkz, working with the designers to meet the client’s specs. What are your other duties with SkinWerkz and BA?

Jeff: Well for Byte Audio I'm the Director of Business Development and a founder of the company. I'm actually the first employee. For SkinWerkz I play a much larger role. I handle the production and operations aspect as well as business development with potential clients. I was the one who made the deal with Microsoft, and now with Warner Records. I'm in talks with some movie studios as well. I also have a hand in the promotional material and press releases. We just had a press release on Yahoo finance. Keyword is ByteAudio.com

I'm Byte Audio's cutting edge idea man so to speak I guess you can say. Since I've been there from the beginning, I'm pretty well versed in all of its aspects. I'm also the one who brought the idea for SkinWerkz to the table.

Tek: Where would you like to see your company go?

Jeff: Up, up, up. I want us to be known as the producer of the best skins out there, who work with the best, for only the best companies.

Tek: Almost in the manner of an art broker or agent.. but more involved?

Jeff: I remember sitting around a dining room table fleshing out what Byte Audio was going to be. Now it’s a year later and we've raised over 2 million dollars. It's a great thing to be a part of...agent, director, producer...

The agent finds the talent. The director oversees the talent and the producer helps find the people who need the talent. That's how I see my role. With a lot of the skinners it’s more like we're friends, though.

Tek: It's interesting to me that you've used film terminology, considering the town you're in :)

Jeff: I'm a total film phile...127 dvds and growing :)

Tek: That's quite a collection!

If I might ask, I know a lot of designers who would be curious to know how much a custom gui skin goes for now. If a company or group came to you, how much would a custom wmp7 skin cost them?

Jeff: If I told you then I would have people underselling me. Wouldn't be good for business

Tek: I understand.. have many other companies, other than the music industry people we talked about earlier, come to BA for work like this?

Jeff: We have a lot of software companies contacting us to do custom GUI work for them. Ahead software being one of them. They make the CD burning software Nero. A lot of streaming media companies have taken an interest in us as well...to do interfaces for their embedded players on their websites.

Tek: That's a logical choice for them. I have always wondered about the marketing line on Stardock’s website that mentions “skinning for a company’s image,” as in, giving the actual computers used by workers a gui unique to the company.

Jeff: Yes we've thought of that to and incorporated that into our literature

Tek: Do think that sort of thing is happening now in corporations, or is that sort of detail a ways off?

Jeff: I don't presume to know what companies are thinking, but I think it gives a good professional attitude to see some sort of standardized desktop when you walk into a corporate salutation. But personally, I think individuality is where it’s at and I would never force someone in my company to lose their individuality. So if it were my company, I'd offer it to them and if they didn't use it then so be it.

Tek: I noticed there is a lot of the BA site still under construction, some with planned dates of completion listed as last month. Do you have a timeline for when more of your services will be available?

Jeff: Music content will be slower than other services. We have a lot of things going on at the same time, so it’s really the ones with the higher revenue models coming first. In order to have the music content BandWerkz and StudioWerkz needs to be promoted. Which they are doing now. So it's really only a matter of time until everything falls into place. We're a small company with huge ideas. It takes time to reach fruition.

Tek: One intriguing area I saw still to come was called the 'skin factory'. Could you tell us more about that?

Jeff: Yes, the skin factory will be where a company with a s smaller budget can go and choose a skin that has already been created for co branding purposes . All we would do is swap out the content for theirs. It’s a lot less expensive than creating a custom one. The one we did for Underworld is actually one of those. Also it’s a way for the skinners to make extra money off their creations as well. If you were to choose the skin done by joachim, then I would go to joachim and pay him to swap out the content, so he would still be making money off a skin he had already been paid for.

Tek: I see. Are there royalties involved for the artist in that case?

Jeff: Yup, it’s the fair way to do it.

Jeff: I do want to throw this in about Byte Audio...

Tek: go right ahead..

Jeff: We paid, out of our own bank account (Byte Audio's bank account), the skinners for the Microsoft contracted skins. Why did we do this? It certainly wasn't our responsibility. We did it so they wouldn't have to wait for months and months to get paid for their hard work. How many other companies would do that?

We also overnight their checks (if they are living in the US) when they finish a job, and if they are abroad, then we either wire or ship faster than normal. I basically treat them how I would want to be treated.

Microsoft was contracted to pay them...

Tek: and you took over that obligation from Microsoft?

Jeff: Yes. In the contracts MS was responsible to pay them. We just decided it might take too long if MS did it, so we chose to pay them and then just wait for MS to pay us. By the way we're still waiting to get paid lol.

Tek: I would imagine it's a safe bet that ms will pay, but the timeframe might not be as certain.

Jeff: It’s been like 4 months since that contract was completed.

Tek: Almost like government work.. kind of scary to say that.

Jeff: heh.

Tek: 4 months? What has Microsoft’s response been about the delay?

Jeff: They're just slow...look how big they are. I'm not worried. Not at all. That's why you have contracts :)

Tek: You've worked with a lot of skin designers, like the ones you've mentioned above concerning the ms contract. Is there one you might consider the most promising, or one to watch?

Jeff: Well, the ones to watch are really doing it. Are there any underrated ones? Yes, definitely. I think Sir Chadwick is highly underrated.

Jeff: O.K. - Closing statement:

We have some really innovative things coming out from ByteAudio and SkinWerkz. We have some great companies hiring us to do skins for them. I think, in no time at all , you will be seeing some of the most innovative and exciting skins to come out in a long time.

Tek: Sounds good :)

Jeff: Great. Thanks for the opportunity to do this.

Tek: You bet. Thanks for taking the time to talk with Teknidermy Magazine.

Jeff: Anytime.